A few weeks after the first moon landing, the US was hit by a category five hurricane with 190 MPH winds. Hansen tells us that temperatures were cold and CO2 was safe in 1969.
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As a veteran of both Camille and Katrina, Katrina had a larger storm surge and much more destruction across the MS Gulf Coast than Camille did. Katrina’s storm surge was probably 10′ higher. It’s not all about top winds. Even if the MS gulf coast wasn’t as developed now just as it was in 1969, the damage would have still been greater due to the storm surge.
Katrina also produced higher winds much farther inland than Camille did. The inland wind damage from Katrina was unbelievable.
So what? Tropical Storm Allison ruined my night in Houston.
Did Allison take away power and running water for a few weeks?
There can be no doubt that Katrina was the worst disaster in history and that it proves out of control global warming.
“There can be no doubt that Katrina was the worst disaster in history and that it proves out of control global warming.”
Is this a tactic of yours to spin someones words into something they didn’t say?
I’m going through other posts of yours on this blog and you keep doing just that. You’ll link to some article or report and twist it into something it never even said in the first place. Even the baptists around here aren’t that bad at lying – and they’ve had decades of practice.
I should also add that the mark on the Biloxi lighthouse from the storm surge of Camille was passed by Katrina, and that buildings that survived Camille were severely damaged or destroyed during Katrina.
The Gulf Coast has sunk several feet since Camille.
“The Gulf Coast has sunk several feet since Camille.”
No it hasn’t.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Storm_surge
I’m a native of coastal MS. I know more about this place than you do. I know more about what we went through in Camille and Katrina than you do. The Biloxi Lighthouse that has marked the storm surge for those two storms AND others has NOT sunk a few feet. It hasn’t sunk at all.
Did you know that there’s a live oak here that pretty much survived Camille unscathed but almost got killed during Katrina? Are you aware that Beauvoir, a house built in 1848 had NOT seen that level of damage or destruction until Katrina? It’s right off of the water and it has not been sinking ‘several feet’ since Camille.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beauvoir_%28Biloxi,_Mississippi%29
The fact that you can blatantly lie about things like this – disasters that have affected me and my family personally and people that I know to the point that they’ve lost homes, properties, and even loved ones, is just incredible.
Katrina did more damage and was a worse impact on the MS gulf coast than Camille. This is a fact.
Yes it has. The Gulf Coast has been sinking 5-10 mm per year
http://www.psmsl.org/data/obtaining/stations/526.php
I was living in Houston in 1988 when the most powerful hurricane in Atlantic history narrowly missed. What is your point.
Apparently you don’t know the difference between Grand Isle, LA and Gulfport, MS.
Grand Isle has been sinking yes – but not several feet. Gulfport, MS has not been sinking at all.
Grand Isle is sinking because there is subsidence due to the Mississippi river being diverted and the wetlands being lost due to a lack of redeposition. Gulfport, MS is not the delta of the Mississippi river.
How can you make such a basic mistake?
Grand Isle has sunk 2 feet since 1955. Are you math challenged?
Grand Isle is also very close to where both Camille and Katrina made landfall.
You are a classic FUDster raising pointless straw men. You like 190 MPH winds? Enjoy.
Waveland – which was heavily damaged in both Katrina and Camille and has been stable:
http://www.psmsl.org/data/obtaining/stations/1715.php
http://www.psmsl.org/data/obtaining/stations/1156.php
A whole 10 cm at Dauphin Island.
10cm is not ‘several feet’. It’s not even a foot.
“Grand Isle is also very close to where both Camille and Katrina made landfall. ”
Only someone who has never been to Grand Isle or the MS Gulf Coast would ever mistake the two places. They do not have the same geology. They are not experiencing the same conditions. Two feet is not ‘several feet’. Grand Isle was not where Camille made landfall. Grand Isle is part of the LA wetlands. Gulfport and Waveland are not. Did you not look at the data for Waveland? It’s not sinking.
Katrina had two landfalls on the gulf coast. One was in MS near Waveland.
If you honestly think that Beavoir and the Biloxi Lighthouse have been sinking then you are either ignorant or haven’t been there or just don’t want to do any research.
Katrina’s surge was larger. This is a fact. It was larger than Camille’s. This is a fact.
You may know a thing or two about CO, but you apparently know nothing about Mississippi or the MS Gulf Coast. Especially if you confuse the MS gulf coast with the LA gulf coast.
You are the one who brought up Katrina and started a pointless argument. This article was about the 190 MPH winds of Camille.
Indianola was destroyed by a massive storm surge in 19th century. That proves that CO2 causes large hurricanes.
You were the one implying Camille was the worst hurricane to hit the MS gulf coast. It wasn’t.
As far as the Indianola Hurricane, the surge was 15′. Katrina topped at 28′. By the way, are you aware which state the Indianola hurricane was in?
The biggest storm surge in US history was in 2005 with Katrina:
http://www.wunderground.com/hurricane/surge_us_records.asp
It’s not a pointless argument. You are talking about something you know little to nothing about. You confuse wind speed with a hurricane’s intensity. You confuse Louisiana for MS. You also don’t seem to know that plenty of buildings that survived Camille were destroyed in Katrina.
Camille was bad, but Katrina was worse – so your argument that 1969 was a worse year for the MS gulf coast is invalid.
Katrina was clearly the biggest disaster to ever hit the universe
“Katrina was clearly the biggest disaster to ever hit the universe”
What planet are you on? You’re saying things I never said. It was the worst hurricane in damages to hit the US, yes.
I still am waiting for you to say you were wrong about confusing the LA gulf coast with the MS gulf coast.
I am just trying to end this pointless discussion.
I should add that the live oak I mentioned has been around since the 1500s – in case you aren’t aware of what a live oak is since you probably don’t have them in Colorado.
There there MissMarple. Back up on the porch now. I’ll be bringing your fan and a mint julep presently. (Nice girl, but about as sharp as a sack of wet mice).
Eric, This Goddard fellow is talking about things he knows nothing about. I’d love for him to actually come down to Gulfport or Biloxi, or even Waveland or Pass Christian and talk to some of the people like me, or the old timers who thought it would never get worse than Camille until Katrina came along.
Katrina didn’t have 190mph winds at landfall, but it had more storm surge, a bigger wind field, and was able to cause hurricane force gusts all the way into Tennessee. Winds reached 80mph all the way up to Starkville, and were over 90mph in Meridian. Laurel and Hattiesburg both got nailed with 110mph SUSTAINED winds. Like I said, the inland wind damage on that scale was simply unprecedented.
The old timers will tell you that until Katrina came along, Camille was the benchmark. Katrina is the new benchmark.
I’ll bet you and your friends were out flying kites during the light 190 MPH breeze of Camille.
You probably miss those major hurricanes, since it has been so long since one hit the US.
What are you smoking? Katrina was a major hurricane until it was about 70 miles inland over southern Mississippi. Camille was bad, but Katrina was worse.
This is a fact. I’m sorry you don’t like dealing with facts.
It seems like you’re arguing that global warming causes storms to have wider swaths, longer endurance, more total energy, but lower top wind speeds and less frequent occurrence. With all respect to the victims of Katrina, that is simply preposterous. Have you no shame?
RTF
There are reasons that litigants should not act as their own lawyers. I think we’re seeing the main one here.
What is your point? This article is about Camille. Are you trying to claim that hurricanes have gotten worse due to CO2? If so, you are going to have to do a lot better than that.
“Katrina was a bench mark” – Based on no evidence, no, Katrina was based due to the poor anti-flood systems and preparations of New Orleans. Katrina was actually a tropical storm.
BUT I’M SO SORRY THAT YOU DON’T KNOW FACTS.
““Katrina was a bench mark” – Based on no evidence, no, Katrina was based due to the poor anti-flood systems and preparations of New Orleans. Katrina was actually a tropical storm.”
Tropical storm conditions in New Orleans, but Category 3 winds in southern MS. You have no idea what you are talking about.
“BUT I’M SO SORRY THAT YOU DON’T KNOW FACTS.”
Judging by that post, I’d like you to tell the people that faced a category 5 level storm surge in MS that they only saw a tropical storm, or the people that lost their roofs in southern MS with 100-120mph winds sustained that it was just a tropical storm.
It is you, my friend, who doesn’t know the facts.
I’m pretty sure if you had to sit through a category 3 or stronger hurricane more than once (which I’m sure you or Steven hasn’t) then you’d change your tune. I’d like to see how you handle it.
Over 1800 dead, $106 billion in damages, and you think it was just a tropical storm.
Unbelievable.
This sure is a tropical storm making landfall:
http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/img/climate/research/2005/katrina/katrina-satellite.gif
Katrina proves that the climate is heating out of control and that we are all doomed.
“Katrina proves that the climate is heating out of control and that we are all doomed.”
It’s just another card in a stacked deck. It’s a result, not a cause.
I won’t debate global warming here because I’m not an expert in it. However, you aren’t either, or else why wouldn’t you go out and publish some real data instead of running a blog. Anybody can run a blog. Not everyone can actually be a scientist.
“It seems like you’re arguing that global warming causes storms to have wider swaths, longer endurance, more total energy, but lower top wind speeds and less frequent occurrence. With all respect to the victims of Katrina, that is simply preposterous. Have you no shame?”
Over the open gulf Katrina was actually a lower pressure than Camille was. 175mph winds aren’t very far away from 190mph, and it was a larger storm so that was about as strong as it could possibly get given the conditions.
What’s sad with a lot of you posters is that you seem to lump the entire gulf coast into one point. Goddard seems to think Louisiana is also Alabama and Mississippi and Texas, and it’s not. We even had another guy think that New Orleans was the only area hit by Katrina or that it wasn’t even a hurricane. That guy is obviously clueless, too.
A tropical storm isn’t going to produce 110 mph sustained winds up to 70 miles inland throughout southern MS. That happened in Katrina. It didn’t in Camille.
If we had the detecting technology of today back in 1969, Camille may have been even stronger than currently estimated with winds near 200 MPH or more. Katrina does not even compare to the Galveston Hurricanes of 1900 and 1915, the 1900 Galveston hurricane killed 10,000 and forced the city of Galveston to construct their 17 feet high seawall. Even with very little warning, there’s no reason any hurricane should kill 10,000 people. It happened in 1900. It didn’t in Katrina.
I was thinking of the emotionally invested missmarple.
I do not mean to downplay the destruction of Katrina, it was widespread. But Katrina has been exaggerated for political purposes.
“Most of the out-of-state dead reported so far were elderly people. But the ages range from an infant who survived only 45 minutes after birth in Pennsylvania, to a 104-year-old woman who died in North Carolina. The vast majority, 82 percent, died of natural causes. Twenty seven of the deaths were deemed accidental. At least two suicides are included in the official count.”
I remember reading a detailed analysis of the body count about a year after and was shocked to see that anyone who died, anywhere near the storm, from whatever cause, was counted as a storm related death.
This did not happen with Camille..
As someone who lived through Camille and Katrina; and as someone who had their home damaged by Ivan though my property is as far inland as Meridian, MS, I understand both MissMarple’s and Steve Goddard’s points. For us in the Central Gulf Coast (AL, MS, West FL), Katrina is now the benchmark. Katrina surpassed both Camille and Ivan’s impact for that part of the Gulf. NO flooded because of political shenanigans; but NO has always flooded before Herbert Hoover and his lower Mississippi River levee building, and will flood again given what I know of NO’s politics. Katrina was a much larger storm than Camille was, as far as I can remember.
That said, what gator69 says intrigues me. This is why one must watch the shifting definitions our current political class is using to further their tyranny. I know that much of our ‘obesity epidemic’ is related to the change in the definition of obesity from body fat percentage to weight (kg)/ height (meter) squared, with the cutoff being 25. Show me the studies that validate that.
Well i remember the 69 storm in Newport news Va. —there were sail boats in the shopping center parking lot
Also here in Mathews Va. i remember my wifes grandmother saying they stood in waist deep water in the 33 storm because they were afraid the house was going to blow away–and Isabelle did the same here
My grandparents told me how even where we lived in central NC was flodded because of Hazel in October 1954.